Manage Account

Every year, there’s a late November harvest of Catholic articles (perfectly timed for Thanksgiving), explaining how <a href="https://www.catholic.com/tract/eucharist">the Eucharist</a> is the first Thanksgiving. After all, the word eucharist means thanksgiving, don’tcha know? But this year, I thought it might be good to put some meat on those turkey bones. What does it actually mean to say that the Eucharist is a “thankgiving” <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-eucharist-as-a-sacrifice">sacrifice</a>?
As Christians, we’re called to “continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name” (Heb. 13:15). And one of the ways that we do this is by presenting the “sacrifice of praise” that is the Eucharistic Sacrifice. The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a beautiful description in paragraph 1359:
<blockquote>The Eucharist, the sacrament of our salvation accomplished by Christ on the cross, is also a sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for the work of creation. In the Eucharistic sacrifice the whole of creation loved by God is presented to the Father through the death and the Resurrection of Christ. Through Christ the Church can offer the sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for all that God has made good, beautiful, and just in creation and in humanity.</blockquote>
Through Christ, we give praise to the Father for every good gift. But where is this sacrificial theology coming from? From both the Old and New Testament.
In The Feast of Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger quotes the German scholar Hartmut Gese, who points out that “strangely enough, one particular form of the ritual meal which is deeply rooted in the Old Testament and which also played a prominent part in Judaism at the time of Jesus (according to the Mishnah) has been neglected by scholars: the tōda, ‘thanksgiving sacrifice.’” The Hebrew word tōda (or todah), like the Greek eucharistia, simply means “thanksgiving.” So it makes sense to read the New Testament thanksgiving offering in light of the Old Testament thanksgiving offering.
These Old Testament sacrifices are first mentioned in Leviticus 7:12-15, and are the backdrop for many of the Psalms of praise. As Michael Patrick Barber explains in Singing in the Reign, “the todah is the only sacrifice in which bread is offered as sacrifice. The sacrifice was then eaten in a celebratory meal. This is also the only time the Levitical law code permitted consecrated bread to be eaten by lay Israelites.”
So who offered a todah sacrifice? The Jewish Talmud (an often-helpful resource for understanding Jewish religious practices) quotes Rav Yehuda (an influential Jewish leader from the 3rd century A.D.) as saying that certain groups  “must offer thanks to God with a thanks-offering and a special blessing,” including those who travelled by sea or desert, as well as “one who was ill and recovered, and one who was incarcerated in prison and went out” (b. Berakhot 54b). In short, if you been saved from danger, sickness, or captivity, it is right that you should respond to God with praise. And this is precisely where we find ourselves, having been “ransomed” by Christ (Mark 10:45).
As the Talmud suggests, there are two ingredients to the todah: you thank God, and you offer him something as a sign of your gratitude. In the first place, we give God our thanks through “the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.” This is what the various todah psalms are doing. For instance, Psalm 18 is ascribed to David, after he was freed from the hands of his enemies, and particularly the hands of King Saul. In it, David describes how “in my distress I called upon the Lord; to my God I cried for help. From his temple he heard my voice, and my cry to him reached his ears” (Psalm 18:6), and God delivered him.
But the second part of the todah is an offering. Originally, that offering was the flesh of an animal, along with unleavened bread (Lev. 7:13). But this is fulfilled in Christ. As the University of Bonn’s Hermut Loehr explains, “with regard to the sacrifice, in the celebration of the Lord’s Supper the self-sacrifice of Jesus himself replaces the animal sacrifice of the Old Testament todah” (The Eucharist and Jewish Ritual Meals: The Case of the todah). Our gift of unleavened bread is, by the words of the priest and the action of the Holy Spirit, <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/transubstantiation-for-beginners">transformed into the true flesh of Christ</a>, and offered in gratitude to the Father. With this we unite our sacrifices of praise to God for all of his goodness to us (individually and collectively). This is our todah, our eucharistia, our sacrifice of thanksgiving. So let us give thanks to the Lord our God. It is right and just.

Jesus: the Original Thanksgiving Meal

The commandment to love our enemies seems impossible sometimes, especially for those who have been badly hurt. So what does Jesus mean by this commandment? Are we all obligated to follow it? And if we do follow it, what does it mean to love those we don&#8217;t feel any love for?

Love Your Enemies

Is there any evidence for the <a href="https://www.catholic.com/tract/peter-and-the-papacy">papacy in the Bible</a>? Catholic apologist Karlo Broussard gives one argument from the Gospel of John and answers a common objection to it on Catholic Answers Live.

Where Is the Pope in the Bible?

The Eucharist is a HARD teaching | ​⁠@shamelesspopery

What’s The Truth About Trans Saints?

Many non-Catholic Christians disdain the crucifix, because they believe it distracts from our Lord&#8217;s victory over sin and death. They prefer the bare cross, which they think better reflects the triumph of his subsequent Resurrection, whereas a crucifix focuses on Jesus’ death or even defeat, as if he still needs to suffers for us. Not surprisingly, then, <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/when-did-jesus-finish-his-sacrifice">the sacrifice of the Mass</a> is often caricatured <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-mass-beats-the-4th-of-july">as the blasphemous re-crucifixion of Jesus</a>.
St. Paul has a better both/and idea. He knows that the Resurrection is an indispensable aspect of Christ’s one paschal sacrifice (1 Cor. 15:12-18). Yet he also knows that Christ’s crucifixion depicts how much Jesus loves us in atoning for our sins (John 15:13; see Heb. 9:11-14), and that the Lord’s embracing his own cross—the cross—helps us better to understand the call to carry our own (Matt. 16:24-26).
Indeed, Paul understands that “Christ crucified” graphically symbolizes that Jesus has vanquished sin, death, and the devil and thus necessarily implies his resurrection. It also illustrates that we need a savior and thereby directs our need to repent and become his disciples:
<blockquote>For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. . . .
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified (1 Cor. 1:22-25, 2:2).</blockquote>
Jesus concurs: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” which he proclaims at the beginning of his public ministry (Matt. 3:17), and thereafter along with apostles, illustrating <a href="https://www.catholic.com/bible-navigator/necessity-of-baptism">that baptism is fundamental in becoming his disciple</a> and having our sins forgiven (Matt. 28:18-19; Acts 2:37-39).
<h2>The Crucifix: A Tangible Reminder (Matt. 28:20)</h2>
These truths all help explain why a crucifix—and not simply a bare cross—is the most universally recognized symbol of Catholicism and Christianity in general. As a cradle Catholic—and praised be our Lord Jesus Christ for the efficacy of <a href="https://www.catholic.com/tract/infant-baptism">infant baptism</a>!—I “got it” at a very young age regarding these sacred images in my home and parish church (<a href="https://saintmaryofredford.church/tour">St. Mary of Redford</a> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/21400866648/">in Detroit</a>). Seeing our Lord’s corpus on a cross greatly helped me encounter our divine Savior as a child (Matt. 18:1-4; 19:13-15), just as Paul knew it would.
So when I continued to see crucifixes in my classrooms at <a href="https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/former-st-mary-of-redford-school-to-be-transformed-into-supportive-housing">St. Mary of Redford Grade School in Detroit</a> and <a href="https://fgrhs.org/">Fr. Gabriel Richard High School in Ann Arbor</a>, I knew I was at home. They never confused or repulsed me, let alone cause me to get angry at another religious group for our Lord’s death. I understood that I contributed to putting him on the cross—that we all did through our personal sins. The sacrament of confession made me intimately aware of these realities—and is designed to do so—and so I was and am grateful that Jesus came to redeem us (John 3:16-17; 12:31-33).
<h2>Girding our Loins for Our Own Good Fridays</h2>
Because of his victory over sin and death, Jesus sends the Holy Spirit, further empowering us to live as credible witnesses for his kingdom (Acts 1:8; 2:1-47; see <a href="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c3a1.htm#III">CCC 156</a>). We need to understand what has Lord has done so that we can embrace his call to holiness and share the good news with others. <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/where-is-confirmation-in-the-bible">The sacrament of confirmation</a> calls us—and equips us—to participate personally in the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20):
<blockquote>It gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:
Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God&#8217;s presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts (CCC 1303).
</blockquote>
Trials will come for us, as they did for Jesus, as <a href="https://bible.usccb.org/bible/readings/032026.cfm">the first reading for Mass on March 20</a> captures well:
<blockquote>For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him
and deliver him from the hand of his foes.
With revilement and torture let us put him to the test 
that we may have proof of his gentleness 
and try his patience (Wis. 2:17-18).</blockquote>
Jesus lives out these words in establishing the New Covenant, enduring mockery from the very people he came to save, as we hear in <a href="https://bible.usccb.org/bible/readings/032926.cfm">the Passion narrative</a> on Palm Sunday:
<blockquote>Those passing by reviled him, shaking their heads and saying, “You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself, if you are the Son of God, [and] come down from the cross!” Likewise the chief priests with the scribes and elders mocked him and said, “He saved others; he cannot save himself. So he is the king of Israel! Let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now if he wants him. For he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” The revolutionaries who were crucified with him also kept abusing him in the same way (Matt. 27:39-44).</blockquote>
Jesus redeems and offers them salvation (Luke 23:34, 1 Tim. 2:4). We cannot act differently, remembering that our mission is to everyone, because everyone is made in God’s image and likeness (Gen. 1:26-27), and thus one for whom our Lord died and offers salvation (2 Pet. 3:9), which is a reminder of our own need for God’s mercy. To help us love those who hate and persecute us (Matt. 5:43-48), we should remember that our incontrovertible enemies are not “flesh and blood”—i.e., mere human beings—but that we are contending “against the principalities, against the powers,” the devil and all of his demonic minions (Eph. 6:12).
Paul exhorts us to fully arm ourselves (Eph. 6:10-18) and lets us know that our armor includes <a href="https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-seven-sacraments-a-comprehensive-list">the sacraments</a>—those weapons of our warfare” that “are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds” (2 Cor. 10:3-4).
This brings us back to the crucifix and Christ’s one paschal sacrifice that it symbolizes. The sacrament of the Eucharist is “the <a href="https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-the-eucharist-is-the-source-and-summit-of-christianity">source and summit</a> of the whole Christian life,” because it enables us to offer anew Christ’s one propitiatory sacrifice (<a href="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V">CCC 1366-1367</a>), and also because it provides us to consume our New Covenant Passover Lamb of God <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-mass-beats-the-4th-of-july">through liturgical remembrance</a> in a bloodless, sacramental manner at every Mass, <a href="https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-is-the-point-of-a-priest">according to the order of Melchizedek</a>—which Jesus assures us will lead us unto eternal life if we receive him reverently (John 6:53-58, Matt. 28:20; see 1 Cor. 10:14-22, 11:23-32).
Our Lord has traveled this road before us. Let us persevere, with his support, because he is trustworthy (John 8:31-32, 14:6; Rom. 8:28).

A Crucifix, Not Just a Cross

&#8220;Lord I have a death to die and not a death to choose.&#8221; So go the words to a hymn by the great English Catholic convert Fr. Frederick Faber. They imply that the attitude toward death that we must adopt in our prayers is simply this: &#8220;Thy will be done,&#8221; as the Savior himself has taught us and as he himself prayed in his agony.
Each day about 160,000 people die all over the world. How many of them are accompanied attentively by family and friends? How many believe in or receive the consolations of true religion? And how many Catholics make prayer for the dying a daily work of mercy?
Death may come in many, many ways. It may be sudden; it may be after a long illness; it may be peaceful and without struggle or with hours of gasping for breath. It may be full of fear or full of consolation. The malice of the devil may seek to cause terror or despair in the soul, or, even more horribly, to convince the sinner that he need not repent or seek the last sacraments. Even so, the angels are present to guide the soul and reassure it and protect it from evil on the way to the world to come.
Holy Church in her wisdom has united the now of this present moment with the certainty of our death as each day we pray many times, &#8220;Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.&#8221; This petition all by itself makes our daily rosary a treasure of grace, protection, and preparation for that most certain and significant moment of our lives. When the hour comes, we will not regret our effort to pray it. Faithfulness to the prayer of the rosary is a sure sign of a happy death.
In her services for the dying, the Church provides the model for the care of those in their last hour. In the first place are the holy sacraments, the so-called “last rites”: confession, anointing, the imparting of the Apostolic Pardon with the plenary indulgence, and Holy Communion if the dying person is capable of swallowing. Notice that nowhere in these does the Church teach us to pray not to die; rather, she teaches us to pray to die well!
<a href="https://www.ibreviary.com/m2/preghiere.php?tipo=Rito&amp;id=371#poca">Here</a> are some models of prayer for the dying from the Church’s official ritual.
Are we allowed not only to pray for the dying, but to pray to die ourselves? The answer to this is a qualified “yes.” First of all, we not only may, but must pray for what Catholics call a “happy death”—that is, a death in the state of grace and assisted by the means of grace such as those already mentioned here. In addition to prayer for a good end of our lives in God’s favor, we may also pray for death in accordance with God’s will for the simple reason that we desire to live forever in God. “I want to be dissolved,” says St. Paul, “and be with Christ.” The supreme happiness of heaven is always preferable to any lesser good available to us in this life. Yet Paul added that living longer may be God’s will for him, as “fruitful toil.”
Growth in merit while we are living means a greater charity and so a more comprehensive possession of God in the vision of heaven. St. Teresa of Avila said that she would have been willing to endure a thousand lives more trying and difficult than her own, just to advance one degree higher in heavenly glory. Thus, she had a higher standard than her own release from the trials of this life—namely, the glory of God and her love for him. This is the way of the saints.
Of course, we can simply desire and pray for deliverance from bodily life with its pains for ourselves or our loved ones. Look at the laments of the prophets of the Old Testament who longed for death. This was not wrong. This is no sin at all, as long as it is with the intention of accepting God’s will. To desire death for a good reason is not a suicidal desire; it is simply reasonable under the circumstances. Suicide is irrational, taking our life on our own authority as though we were the sources and masters of our lives. Acceptance is the key. We can pray often, “O God, I accept now the death you have prepared for me with all the pains that may accompany it.” We can pray that our loved ones be spared a painful death agony. But once again, we must pray with the Savior in Gethsemane: “Not my will but thine be done.”
Indeed, all things being equal, it is more important to pray for a happy death than for full recovery. For example, we can understand why we might pray earnestly for a full recovery for a young person, or for a father or mother of a family on whom so many depend, but to pray for a full recovery for a person in extreme old age, who has run the race, runs contrary to kinder sentiments. It may be time, and it certainly soon will be!
What about people who are evil or who are harming us or those dear to us? Even here we can offer a qualified “yes.” It is a sin to wish death on someone out of hatred or passionate anger, yet we can hope to be spared the oppression of a tyrant or violent enemies who harm us and our loved ones. To wish death on someone is to wish an evil that we would not want done to ourselves. This is clearly against the commandment of love of neighbor and the most basic Golden Rule, to do to others as we would be done by. We must leave the matter in God’s hands. Thus, we do not have to mourn our oppressor’s death, but we may not murder him. (Now, legitimate self-defense is not murder, but even there we are to seek only to use lethal force if it seems necessary.)
In all just uses of force, it is not the death of our opponent we will so much as the defense and vindication of justice, which is in fact the true purpose of anger. Even wars are fought not precisely because we desire our enemy’s death, but so as to establish justice and to eliminate injustice. His death is desired only indirectly insofar as it may be unavoidable due to the nature of the conflict.
Instead of wanting to die, let us want to reach heaven, that prayer which is of all prayers to most in accordance with God’s will. In life or death, “thy will be done!”
Most of all, we should daily pray for the dying, especially to St. Joseph, the patron of a happy death. Here is a short prayer for which there is a partial indulgence:
“Saint Joseph, true Spouse of the Virgin Mary, pray for us and for all the dying of this day (or night).”
For some deeper insight into this devotion for the dying, I recommend the little book by another English convert, the Venerable Mother Mary Potter, foundress of the Little Company of Mary, Devotion for the Dying. It is still in print and full of edification.

How Should We Pray for the Dying?

In this clip, Cy Kellett welcomes Joe Heschmeyer to discuss why some individuals leave the Catholic Church. Joe continues with details about the importance of community and guidance in faith, addressing the concerns raised by callers like Sarah.
Transcript:
Caller: I was a Catholic and I actually chose to leave the church. And it&#8217;s not for some great theological reason. I joined the church as a teenager because I love the history and the tradition that I felt like I was learning and et cetera. But what I have found, and as I said, it&#8217;s really not a theological reason, is just a real lack of community. I don&#8217;t have children, I&#8217;ve moved multiple states probably every two to three years. And I&#8217;ve never been to a parish that had a sense of community where I could meet people, particularly, you know, people that were working and professionals, etc. They seem to have some offerings for children, some for senior citizens and nothing else. You show up to Mass and you go home. The other issue that I had, and this is, this was probably what pushed me out the door, is it seems in our ever secular world, you know, particularly the United States, they never heard from any of the parishes. I went from really some, something I could put my teeth into in day to day living and how to, you know, here&#8217;s all these secular vices or things that I&#8217;m seeing and I just saw nothing from the, from the church. I saw no guidance on the day to day reality of living in the United States with things that the church says that you shouldn&#8217;t have, that you shouldn&#8217;t be doing. And even to this day I don&#8217;t see the church making statements anywhere. Oh, Sarah really kind of crushed me out. All right, let&#8217;s get Joe&#8217;s response and I&#8217;ll come back to you, Sarah, thanks.
Joe Heschmeyer: Well, first of all, I&#8217;m really sorry for the way you&#8217;ve been treated. I&#8217;m really sorry for feeling like alone in the parish. That should never happen. And I know that&#8217;s a lot of the experience of a lot of people and in some places in the U.S. probably more the norm than the exception. And it&#8217;s a problem that we, I think, as the community need to work on to make it feel more welcoming. And it&#8217;s hard to do. You know, we try to do with things like greeters and that&#8217;s good as far as it goes, but I think we need more like it needs to be something where as individual Catholics, we, we have that sense of community. I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t know if the solution is more, you know, parish programs. I think the solution is more a community sense of ownership that we need to be inviting people in. Like the, the Jews in the Old Testament take hospitality very seriously. You look at the way Abraham greets the angels in the book of Genesis and so on from there. Like you need to treat people with hospitality very seriously. And we sometimes treat that as kind of a trivial bit of etiquette where no, it really is connected to virtue. It really is connected to living holiness. So I&#8217;m sorry that that was not lived well in your experience. I won&#8217;t ask you what diocese or anything. I would say that thanks be to God is not universally the experience. You can find good churches in some places is harder to do than others, but you can find churches where you have more of that sense of community. And I think you can also be part of the solution by just saying, this is my church too. Like, you&#8217;re a baptized Catholic, you&#8217;re one of us. And just say, how do I make other people feel more at home in that? Because I think you&#8217;re absolutely right that in a lot of places everything is kind of structured for retirees or for children. And for everyone else it can be a little difficult. But things like, for instance, the parish is five minutes from here, has a fantastic mothers group that meets every week. And it&#8217;s been such a tremendous aid to stay at home moms who are trying to live the faith and maybe don&#8217;t get a lot of adult interaction, you know, those kind of things. But that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s not something where the pastor&#8217;s leaving it. That&#8217;s something where the moms are, are just putting in the time and effort and the sweat and making it happen. And I don&#8217;t know that there&#8217;s a solution other than that, that the people who feel really called and convicted there, if we don&#8217;t step up, nobody else is going to. So I think that&#8217;s the first thing. On the second one, I wanted to get a little clarification about what you mean about day to day living. Do you mean that you could use more like here&#8217;s guidance in terms of spirituality and how to live a prayer life? Well, do you mean like political things or social issues or what. What is it that you were looking for and not finding specifically and not
Caller: necessarily from our priest, but probably from the priest at the time where I was going, it just seemed to be. And then going on up, for example, any of the myriad of social issues that you see today that are just seen as fine. Any of the ones that the church, I feel like historically has been very open about, about that this is wrong. I just feel like we just don&#8217;t talk about it anymore. Do you mean things like abortion? Well, I think abortion, but I think there&#8217;s so many more you know, it used to be. I mean, you could go down the list. Did you, did you feel one. But that&#8217;s a big one.
Cy Kellett: Did you feel like you get. Or do you feel like you get clearer moral teaching in your Protestant church than in the Catholic Church?
Caller: Yes, absolutely. Got it. Someone stands, someone is not scared to stand up and say, you should not be looking at pornography. I see what you&#8217;re saying. Okay, I&#8217;m following you now. Yes. That kind of thing. Right. Homosexuality. Right, right. Never heard that from the Catholic Church.
Joe Heschmeyer: You know what, Sarah, I would say this. It&#8217;s kind of. Your question is funny in a certain way. And please don&#8217;t mishear what I&#8217;m saying there. Just because so much of the world criticizes us for allegedly constantly talking about those things. But then you&#8217;ll find pockets where the preaching just kind of conspicuously avoids it. I do think younger clergy tend to be a little bolder about speaking into that. I also think there&#8217;s a certain pastoral sensitivity to the fact that it&#8217;s much easier to have those hard conversations one on one than in front of a couple thousand people, particularly maybe sensitive sexual topics when there might be a lot of children present. It&#8217;s very hard to know how do we talk about something like pornography in front of a mixed company? You know, like, that&#8217;s as tricky to do. And so I want to both respect the difficulty there, that there&#8217;s a reason why some priests really struggle to drive that home. Or maybe they speak a little too obliquely about it. There may be a little better about it in the confessional than they are at the pulpit because they&#8217;re able to do a little more. They can be a little more open about the details of it without scandalizing anyone. But at the same time, I think you&#8217;re right that there is a need to preach on those issues. But that really isn&#8217;t. To put it this way, that&#8217;s not really a church level problem. That&#8217;s an individual priest or parish level. Maybe that&#8217;s an issue where you talk to the pastor and say, I think we really could use a homily on X, Y or Z. And maybe he would be open to some words of encouragement, or maybe you&#8217;d find someone who, who preaches that a little more fervently down the street. Certainly you can find Catholics online. You can find statements from the USCCB and other Catholic sources. You can find papal statements about all of those issues and really explicitly kind of acknowledging where the problems are with those. You know, so I don&#8217;t know if that Helps. There&#8217;s not a lot that we can do about the fact that, like, maybe your local parish is a little too lukewarm. Or maybe the preaching isn&#8217;t what you would like it to be.
Cy Kellett: Could I just add, Joe, however, that like you said, not a churchwide problem, but one thing that is a churchwide problem is since about the 1960s, there has been an internal struggle in the Catholic Church that we should be honest and open about. Where bishops argue with other bishops, priests argue with other priests, Catholics argue with other Catholics about what should be the messaging, so to speak. And we have a serious messaging problem in that. I mean, right now, the US Bishops are frankly as divided as. I mean, not divided in the sense that huge numbers are on each side, but they&#8217;re very divided about how you should talk about. Even things like politicians who are supportive of abortion. They just can&#8217;t settle it. And so there is an unsettledness in the Catholic Church that I think you would not have gotten before the sexual revolution of the 1960s.
Joe Heschmeyer: Yeah, I think that&#8217;s totally true. I think the other thing worth pointing out here is that when Protestants are at that ill ease with one another, there tends to just be a schism. And, like, they go off and form different groups. And so then you can find the preacher who says the things you want them to say, who. Who really convicts other people in the sins they&#8217;ve got. Or you can find the, you know, the priest who. You know, the preacher, excuse me, who. Who goes in the opposite direction with the Catholic Church. It really is, you know, James Joyce called it, Here comes everybody. That you&#8217;ll find, you know, people who are very convicted of the teachings of the church. And unfortunately, there&#8217;s wheat and weeds in the church. There are people who have both legitimate disagreements, but also sometimes they just don&#8217;t seem to believe everything the Catholic Church believes and teaches. And so that is a real problem. I am admittedly blessed. I live in the archdiocese where the head is. Archbishop Naumann is the head of the Pro Life Committee for the usccb. So we don&#8217;t have the particular problem Sarah&#8217;s talking about. But I know a lot of places do where maybe the bishop doesn&#8217;t speak out as he should. Maybe the priests don&#8217;t feel comfortable speaking out as they should. I think that&#8217;s a problem with courage maybe as much as anything else. And I do think the best thing that can happen there is some polite but forceful kind of encouragement.
Caller: Sarah, I gotta leave it there. Cause we gotta take a break. As a matter of fact, I&#8217;m late for the break. But that was such a great conversation, I didn&#8217;t want to leave it. Thank you very much for the call. We&#8217;ll go to Alan Cleveland when we get back. We gotta take this very quick break.