In this episode Trent shares his recent debate with Anthony Rogers on the issue of sola scriptura hosted by TGT.

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Marlon (Host of “The Gospel Truth”) (00:00:00):

Today’s debate is concerning Sola scriptura. The format is 20 minute openings, 15 minute rebuttals. We go cross examination. It’ll be a total of 30 minutes. Both parties will get 15 minutes each to ask questions with a 20 minute q and a, and then the closing will be a seven minute closing after the q and a. So that should prompt you guys to get your questions in early. All right? Make sure you get the index cards. You might want to grab ’em now so you can write your questions down while you’re listening to the debate and we’re going to have after the q and a seven minute closings. Good to go. Anthony, you’re up for your 20 minute opening.

Anthony Rogers (00:00:38):

Good evening. I want to begin by giving all praise and thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ who loved me and gave himself for me. I also want to thank Marlon for organizing this event, Trent, for engaging me on this topic and all of you for giving us your year this evening. The word of God is and always has been an existential threat to Satan’s kingdom and so also to any individual or group that seeks to seed itself in the place of God and bind the consciences of men with doctrines and duties that cannot be proven to come from God. Economic historian Jacob Rubin has written that there is a very strong connection between towns that adopted the reformation and those that had a printing press, which is just to say those towns that had a copy of the Bible as an heir of the reformation.

(00:01:39):

The position I’ll be defending in this debate is that found in the classic creeds and confessions of the Reformation summarized as follows, scripture as the word of the self-contained triune God is his self-authenticating, inspired, revelatory word, which is as such inert, sufficient and clear so that it may as by divine design it was intended to function as the ultimate or final norm and regulator of all Christian faith in practice. Well first then scripture is self-authenticating. Cardinal Stanislas, a member of the body that produced the decrees and anathema filled cannons of the Council of Trent, not Trent’s YouTube page. And so a representative of the spirit that animated that Counter Reformation counsel infamously said the scriptures have only as much force as the fables of esop if destitute of the authority of the Catholic church, Thomas Stapleton, a Catholic theologian and Controversialist, much loved by Pope Clement VIII who made him an honorary pate said one must not believe God as he speaks in his written word unless the authoritative judgment of the Pope stands in between.

(00:02:57):

Although Catholics have learned express this idea in less overtly scandalous ways, the same view is still heard from Catholics today. Carl Keating, the founder of Catholic Answers Trent’s organization, said the same church that authenticates the Bible that establishes inspiration is the authority set up by Christ to interpret his word. The upshot of such statements is that according to Rome and her apologists, in order for God’s word to be authenticated, he needs his papers stamped by popes and bishops. He needs their nihill, abad, and imp perimeter. Well, in stark contrast to this, we maintain that the triune God, the author of scripture is self-contained. He has all life and glory in and of himself and doesn’t stand in need of any creature as self-contained. God is self-referencing, which is to say he speaks with self-authenticating authority. When Moses asked God for his name, the Lord identified himself in terms of himself as his own reference point.

(00:03:56):

I am who I am. He didn’t look outside of himself to declare who he is or point Moses beyond his self testimony to some creature or body of men analogously. When God swears he swears by himself there being none greater by whom he could swear, God can’t deny himself and is the ultimate authority. He always speaks with ultimate authority, self-authenticating authority. Accordingly, when the prophet spoke from God, they prefaced and followed their utterances saying thus sayeth the Lord, the true God is his own notary. He stamps his own papers. Jesus and the apostles taught the same thing as the great I am incarnate. Jesus, the eternal word of the Father spoke with self attesting authority. Hundreds of times Jesus fronted or prefaced his words with his own solemn declaration, ratifying their truth. Amen. Amen. I say to you, because Jesus spoke with such unprecedented authority suspending the truth of all his declarations on the mere fact that he said them, the people reacted at every turn.

(00:05:01):

Never has any man spoke like this. Where did this man get this authority? Well, that’s a good bit better, although it still falls short of faith. Then the response of the religious leaders when Jesus said, for example, I am the light of the world, the Jewish leaders replied, you testify concerning yourself. Your testimony is not true. In other words, they were saying your word needs our approval. It is our magisterium that declares such matters. We authenticate what’s from God to this. Jesus replied, I am he who testifies about myself and my father who sent me also testifies about me. He went on to say to those who rejected his self-authenticating testimony and that of the Father by saying neither me nor my father, if you knew me, you would know my father. Also anyone then who does not hear this magisterium that of the Father and the son and devolve all their confidence upon their, but instead hearkens to the voice of another does not know the Father and the son in the same context, Jesus also said, he who is of God hears the words of God for this reason you do not hear them because you are not of God.

(00:06:12):

Later when speaking to Pilate, Jesus said, he who is of the truth hears my voice. This word then is self-authenticating and it imposes itself upon those who are of the truth. Second scripture is inspired and therefore inert and infallible. The uniform teaching of the prophets and the apostles is that God is the origin or source of holy scripture. Moses the fountain head of the prophetic tradition, the written law said that man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God a statement the Lord Jesus repeated When making an end of Satan’s temptations, it is written Satan man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God in the writings of the prophets who followed in the wake of Moses. We see the same thing in the kipi of their writings and so indicating how we’re to view their contents.

(00:07:05):

We frequently read expressions such as the word. The Lord came to Ezekiel, to Hosea, to Joel, to Jonah, to Micah, to Zephaniah. All such expressions indicate and underscore that scripture originates with God and is conveyed to his chosen instruments who then under his mighty hand superintendent by his spirit passed on us what they received from him. The apostle Peter expressed it this way, prophecy did not have its origin in the will of man, but holy men spoke from God as they were born along by the Holy Spirit. In the context he’s talking about written scripture, the Lord Jesus taught this same view of scripture When he said that, David spoke the words of Psalm one 10 in the spirit and when he quoted Psalm 82 as God’s word to the people of old which could therefore not be broken, the apostles were consciously aware that the same spirit of inspiration at work in the prophets was also at work in them according to the promise of Christ, such that what they put down in writing was his inspired word.

(00:08:05):

In second Corinthians, Paul contrasts the words of merely human wisdom with those given through the apostles by the spirit. In the same context, he says that the spiritual man, the renewed man, a person born of the spirit receives the words given by the spirit later in the same epistle. And note this well, Paul said if anyone thinks he’s a prophet or spiritual, that is a spiritual man, let him acknowledge that the things I’m writing to you are the Lord’s commandment. That is his authoritative word. Paul goes on to say in the same section, very next sentence, if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized speaking in harmony with Paul and in fact on behalf of the entire apostolic college, John wrote, we are from God. He who knows God listens to us. He who is not from God does not listen to us.

(00:08:57):

By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error because this word is from God who is truth itself. It is in the very nature of the case altogether true without any darkness or error. That’s why David could say the entirety, the sum of your word is truth because God’s word is truth and is full of glorious promises from God. Even the great promise to David concerning his greater son, David could say you have magnified your word above your name. That is God’s word surpasses all the other tokens or ways by which he has made himself known. In concert with this, Jesus said, sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth. Paul told Timothy accurately handle the word of truth. The word being from God who is truth is therefore without lies, without errors. John said, no lies of the truth.

(00:09:45):

Well scripture’s the truth, therefore there is no lie in this word. Third scripture is materially sufficient. Although Catholics today are of two minds regarding whether or not scripture tells us everything we need to know regarding what we are to believe, how we’re to worship and live before God. With some saying it is sufficient, some saying it isn’t sufficient. Both parties saying this is what the magisterium teaches of Rome. We can be thankful that nevertheless scripture itself is not of two minds on this topic. According to scripture, there isn’t anything a Christian must believe requisite to salvation, nothing he must do in worshiping God a right nothing he must do in living before God. That is not taught in scripture either expressly or biological inference. David said the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul. Speaking of this sufficiency, Micah also tells us he has shown you, oh man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you.

(00:10:38):

He’s shown you. Micah says, in written scripture, Paul said to him, who is able to establish you according to my gospel, which he calls the mystery. He says, it is now manifested and by the scriptures of the prophet, according to the commandment of the eternal God, it has been made known to all the nations leading to the obedience of the faith. Paul saying the faith is already there in the Old Testament. How much more than also in the new, if the previous scriptures contained the sufficiency of the faith and so must we say the New Testament, all the more John said of the things recorded in his account, these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ and believing you may have life in his name. To Timothy Paul said From infancy, you’ve known the holy scriptures, the sacred writings which are able to make you wise unto salvation.

(00:11:25):

And Peter says, his divine power has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness, and he says this, divine power is given to believers through the true knowledge of him, a knowledge they have of him through the precious and magnificent promises, his ins, script rated promises, promises that Peter says he is reminding the church of in this very epistle so scripture is sufficient to convert the soul, to make one wise into salvation, to communicate the whole faith and for everything pertaining to life and godliness. Fourth scripture is formally sufficient, meaning it is sufficiently clear. James Gibbons once the bishop of Baltimore who eventually became a cardinal in the Roman church said, we must conclude that the scriptures alone cannot be a sufficient guide and rule of faith because they are not of themselves clear and intelligible even in the matters of the highest importance by what she means.

(00:12:19):

Things like the doctrine of the trinity or that were saved by grace through faith in Christ apart from works, these things are not clear in scripture expressing the same sentiment. Catholics since the Reformation have said things like scripture is a mute book, a dead letter, a wax nose, an idol and inactive word. Again, I don’t think they would as openly say that today, but this is the underlying view of Rome. According to them, scripture doesn’t speak, it doesn’t explain itself. It is insufficient to communicate the words of life and salvation to the contrary. In scripture we have not only what God spoke but that in which he still speaks. God is still speaking in this word. This word is full of life, light and saving power through Moses. The Lord declared this word is not an idol word for you. Indeed it is your life through the prophet Jeremiah, the Lord said is not my word like fire declares the Lord and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces.

(00:13:16):

Jesus said The words I’ve spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Stephen, in Acts seven said that Moses received living oracles to pass on to you. How could it be otherwise? God’s word and the spirit who gave it the spirit who works by and with the word in the hearts of men brings about new life creates the saving graces of faith and repentance. Paul says, faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God and so on because this word is full of life, light and saving power, it is clear light is by very definition that which illuminates makes clear it comes to and gets through to God’s people, those born of the spirit. Moses said this word is not too difficult for you nor out of reach. That is it’s clear and accessible and Jeremiah 42, the prophet said the word of warning which he delivered to the people from God was clear.

(00:14:05):

The prophet Ezekiel is told to be a watchman on the wall and warned people otherwise their blood would be on his head as he spoke to speak garbled words in havoc. Two, the prophet is told, record the vision, put it on tablets and make it clear so that the one who reads it may run. You can read it while running and understand it. The whole reason for God giving his word through the prophets was to communicate to his people, which means he communicated he wanted to be heard, he wanted to be understood the Lord Jesus and the apostles also taught the clarity of the word of God, which doesn’t mean of course that blind men can’t fail to see the light and its receive its illumination. In John 10, the religious leader said to Jesus, if you’re the Christ, tell us clearly this is the question of our debate.

(00:14:47):

Is Jesus clear to this? Jesus didn’t reply. You don’t understand word. It’s unclear and that’s because there’s no Pope standing in between us. Rather in response to their statement, Jesus said, I did tell you and you didn’t believe. He went on to say, you don’t believe because you’re not my sheep, not because my word’s unclear. If a blind man doesn’t see the light, there’s nothing wrong with the light. It’s something wrong with his eyes. The same. Jesus repeatedly upgraded the religious leaders for their failure to believe the truth. Rhetorically asking, have you never read the implication? The upshot is if you’ve read it then you’d understand it. The fact that you don’t understand it means either you haven’t read or you are blind. Certainly there are parts of scripture that are harder to understand than others, but on the whole scripture is clear and the occasional hard things can be understood by comparing scripture with scripture.

(00:15:38):

Fifth, scripture is the ultimate norm in regulator because scripture is the inspired the self-authenticating in errant sufficient and clear word of God. It can and by divine design was given to function as the ultimate norm and regulator of all Christian faith and practice. Everything is to be held to the standard of this word. All preaching and teaching must be according to and come from the scriptures. Now to be sure when God raised up the prophets and the apostles, he first put his words in their mouths and directed them to preach orally to the people and people were to harken to what they heard immediately from them or those proximate to them, but scripture is clear how the word was to be preserved for and conveyed to distant generations. The Lord said to Moses, write this in the book as a memorial. That is so that it might serve as a record, a reminder to future generations.

(00:16:31):

The Lord reiterates the point several times over to Moses saying in another place, take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. Sow that it may remain there as a witness against you. The prophets after Moses are told the same thing to Isaiah, the Lord said go write it on a tablet before them and inscribe it on a scroll so that it may serve in the time to come as a witness forever. Likewise, David in the Psalm said, this will be written for the generations to come so that a people yet to be created may praise the Lord. This is why Jesus up upgraded the religious leaders for while they should have clung to the written word alone, they claim to be in possession of traditions, oral teachings from God through Moses that were not written down and Jesus said thereby they had nullified the word of God for the sake of their traditions.

(00:17:20):

The apostles followed suit. Paul said to the Romans that what was written the four time was written for our instruction what was written about Abraham. He says the same thing to the Corinthians After quoting the law, he says, for our sake it was written referring to what happened to the Exodus generation Paul. Paul said these things happen to them as an example and were written for our instruction in Acts, Peter said that Moses received living oracles to pass on to you. It was this word long after was originally given the written word that served as the sole norm. Accordingly, when the apostles preached and taught, they always did so from the scriptures. They did not pass on anything that could not be demonstrated from the scriptures. Acts eight, Philip opened his mouth in beginning from this scripture, he preached Jesus to him elsewhere. In Acts it says, according to Paul’s custom, he went to them and for three Sabbath reasoned with them from the scriptures.

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This is what Paul’s doing orally not saying anything but what’s already in the scriptures the same. Speaking of Apollo, a mighty man in the scriptures, it says he powerfully refuted the Jews in public demonstrating from the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. Yes, the apostles and early Christian evangelists and deacons preached and taught orally just l... Read more on Catholic.com